For LP's I have recently cleaned, I don't need to wet clean them again for awhileI just put 'em on the turntable and dry-brush them with the Hunt. http://www.djtutor.com/repairs http://www.djtutor.com/affairsGive your opinion please. The Vestax arm is short, thus has no overhang. by Paladin 10 Feb 2008 16:20, Post Although, I have heat shrinked and used interior dampening on light weight straight arms, also with good results. I read Robert Greene's review of the SL1200G in TAS last night. He is up and about and functioning similar to his old self. This tone arm is a big improvement in tracking and anti skating. Hope someone really knows why they designed the "S" shaped tonearm. On an axe head, the poll is there specifically to act as a counter balance to the bit. There are so many variables and connections in any one system ( let alone the variables in the LP's) that the I find no real difference between tonearms with fixed headshells or curved arms with detachable headshells , except for the the ultimate question - do you like the sound of the tonearm. I am planning on upgrading my Rega in the near future. You mentioned a record vacuum cleaning system. With a friend it should not take you very much time. I currently use an Exact 2 in my Rega. Powered by Invision Community. Of course, it has an "S" arm on it. Hi, for those bros have played enough with turntables: is there significant difference between the straight arm design vs the curved arm (J-shape, like the SL1200) in terms of sound quality? The shape of the tonearm is important in so far as it affects the torsional rigidity of the tonearm. Straight Tone Arm Vs. Curved Tone Arm. Hey Jim - I've got a question for you. Tracking was not nearly as reliable with massive S arm tables and carts. Anyway, if anyone is interested I will try and offer some additional perspective on the matters under discussion to the already excellent points made. Tonearm, After 30+ years spinning vinyl I do believe MF is right about owning some type of record vacuum cleaning system. But bent, the pivot can be nearer the platter. Interesting thoughts on the subject. A linear tonearm has zero tracking error. by Paladin 10 Feb 2008 19:09, Post All the different shapes and designs of arms try to minimize tracking errors across the playing arc. by JaS 10 Feb 2008 18:08, Post $29.99 $ 29. Straight arm vs curved arm TT: any difference. Our publication is supported by its audience. It's a functional and useful design. IF YOU JOINED ON JUNE 25TH TO JULY 18TH, GO. One or two supports may be enough the solidify the foot-fall vibrations as you walk. What's the official name for those turntables with a curved arm? Same reason I believe behind long tonearms and parallel tracking tonearms. by analogous 10 Feb 2008 16:27, Post I even went out and purchased a new cartridge and needle and still happened. As you no doubt know, the S-shape is just so the headshell, where the cartridge is parallel to the sides of the headshell, fits. Because no torque is being created, the record will be less prone to skipping. StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). Perhaps would work for me as well? Thanks a lot guys, I just googled a few different tonearms and only just noticed that in all of them, the headshell is offset. As you guys said. I Hi Keith In a pivoted tonearm, the offset angle of the cartridge and the length of the tonearm is what determines the tracking error, not the actua For a straight tonearm the accuracy of the headshell offset angle is very important for the lowest possible tracking error and unfortunately not al BradOlson, Jan 8, 2003 #2. Sorry to disappoint you guys but properties like stiffness depend greatly on type of material, mechanical properties of the material, length to diameter ratio, you can't just say J shape better than straight pipe or vice versa. HERE. Try and relocate the wires if you can. The turntable issue is more one of should you upgrade your phono stage first. To save space. An S shape has the advantage of resonance reduction. Although it is correct to say that an "S" shaped tonearm often facilitates the incorporation of a removable head shell into the design, it is not axiomatic that this would be so. I have not found a good substitute for great bearings and a massive platter. In fact I've spent entirely too much time in there. I've got a couple hundred LP's sitting here that I "gave up on" ten years ago because everytime I went to play them, my phono needle either got clogged with lint/dust or some sort of grungy substance. The angle of the head shell (although parallel to the cartridge in both S and straight arms) has no bearing. There's no real advantage to curved arms. The J kind is difficult to balance while the S can be, balanced by lifting up the front side of the TT and then moving the, later weight till the arm reach equilibrium postion. Unless your system has great recolving power and you are using at least a $1K phono stage from Mr. Fremmer's recommendations, the "s" shape of tone arm may not be the biggest problem. I searched the forums and couldn't find anything regarding tracking and tone arm design. Our publication is supported by its audience. 4. You can have S, J, straight, flat floppy NAD, or what ever arm shape, but the stylus is at a point and angled in a specific direction, and that what matters. It is about maximizing stiffness with low mass and low resonance. I found a homeless man living under a single-woman's house onceno kidding. I'm pretty sure they're used for radio but I want to know what the official name for one is. The last time I looked,most high end tables come with a straight arm. I know S shaped arms have more mass if all else is equal as the curve means the wand is longer (but not longer in terms of effective length). 130230-6882 Curved and Straight Tonearms Over the last 40 years I have owned 3 turntables. TT manufacturers began making them because the convenience of removable headshells allow for quick cartridge swaps and easy setting of the offset angle. Straight configurations will take less space width wise. As you guys said. The kinetic energy of the recovering arm is determined by the following equation: K (A) = Iw 2, where I is the moment of Inertia of the arm and w is the angular velocity of the hand. But my Prime, with it's heavy platter, excellent bearing and tripple belts, and aided by Phoenix Engineering Roadrunner Tachometer and Eagle PSU, is it's equal both measurably and sonically. I experienced quite a lot of hum even before the wire harness got damaged. PLEASE RECHECK THE WINNERS LIST. Possibly just fashion I guess? And the electronics sit against a load bearing wall, so finding good support isn't a problem. Over lap the runs by To get the right offset angle, the arm was bent in a fashion that allows a straight headsell to line up correctly. ", Sound Media Group Pty Ltd When I was younger one of the best TT packages I owned was a Technics SP10 direct drive with one of 2 "S" shaped SME arms. curved sounds better on vinyl and produces less record wear. www.musicdirect.com has many isolation platforms, but the heavy foot-falls will require more than that. Jump to content It has a Technics style "s" shaped tonearm with belt drive. I have over 2500 LP's, many of which are at least 20 years old. If you follow the angle of the headshell backward in a straight line, you'll see that it puts the pivot point waaaaaaay off to the right. This leaves a bunch of crud on the brush, which I sweep off with a dry sponge. But as you say, I should only have to do it once, and doing it will have benefits beyond the sonic variety. Basic physics is at work here. Over the last 40 years I have owned 3 turntables. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. Longer arms more closely approximate a tangent but their higher moving mass involves other compromises such as reduced rigidity. When your are down there you might also want to do a couple of things: Clean out all wood debris that you can; put down a poly vapor barrier under the entire crawl space that you can reach and leave about a 1-2 foot rim of exposed dirt at the outer inside-edge by the cement block foundation; check your cross vents and make sure they have good screen and wire mesh on them to keep rodents out!!!. I did not know that the Continuum has a secondary bearing, I thought it was a unipivot. First, I have a VPI record-washer, their cheapest model (about $450-$500), which has been superb. I regret ever selling them. All original. by Abandonflip 10 Feb 2008 19:07, Post Aquateen, Jan 7, 2003 #1. by Guest 10 Feb 2008 18:53, Post Great question, one I've never had an answer for. Since the shortest, most efficient line from the bearing to the needle would be a straight line, I could only relate to straight arms. BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven. The curved or "S" shaped arm always seemed like they did nothing except to add mass. Where are the super "S" arms? I much prefer the nice curves of my tonearm to a stiff rod. After i do the bracing perhaps an isolation platter would do what is needed. Over lap the runs by about 3-4 inches. Linear tracking arms also have their own set of compromises and, if Continuum Audio Labs is any sort of yardstick, their "real world" performance can be matched or bettered by pivoted arms. Its more for at home HiFis. Just bring the arm over to the spindle. As does the Basis Vector. Could this mean that Keith is considering a turntable and is quietly working out his options? Discussion in 'Turntables' started by It is science. The J and S shape tonearms (need to) use the so called ''lateral, balance'' weight in order to get equal pressure on both horizontal, bearings. I have thought about going into the dirt crawl space and reinforcing the floor from below. My question: What are the advantages/disadvantages of each, sonic or otherwise? Cartridge/Phono stage2.) Then I realized I had it backwards, so maybe that extra mass on the outside caused some torque/rotation in the arm and "rotated" the needle in such a way that it was able to more forcefully push on the outer facing groove and resist the skating force of the inner facing groove. The reason you would choose to buy a turntable with a straight arm as opposed to a curved arm is for scratch control. A straight tone arm has a completely different position, angle and range of grip and is set-up so DJs can scratch with high precision without the worry of skipping records. The Graham features VTA adjustment on-the-fly. My question was prompted by the TAS review of the Technics SL-1200G in their current issue. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The shape of the armwand is but one important variable in tonearm design. I have had both, shoot, I have both now. Powered by Invision Community. But then again you could fill a book with stuff I don't know. I had never imagined such a thing until I tore the bathroom apart for a major remodel. It would have been easier to have the collet type of connection in straight alignment with the armtube and achieve the required offset angle by bending the tube. This design totally reduces the I'm fairly new to the TT side of things so if anyone else xam correct me I'd appreciate it. Not much really if you're DJing. Somehow, the OP's actual question about pivoted tonearms with straight vs curved arm tubes (or "wands") got completely lost as the discussion turned to turntable and speaker mass. I doubt he is looking at a vintage separate arm! If my fading memory still serves me well enough, my recollection is that the 'S' arm shape was aimed at modifying the resonant frequency of the arm - where the straight arm was favoured by those that felt that the lower mass was more important. I'll be interested in seeing the arm shape explanations that come in here! You can tell the two different straight arm types apart very easily by seeing where the stylus lands relative to the spindle. Then I would put the patio block down on top of the vapor barrier and do your supports as you see fit. What turntable are you going to get Keith? Then I wet-clean them with the VPI. Maybe the wise old hands can give me some advice. The only straight tonearms are linear tracking tonearms, the rest of the tonearm with straight armtube have an offset angle of the headshell, so they are not actually straight, except for the very short ones like the ViV Lab for example. Do you edit your mixes after youve finished? If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. We all argue until the cows come home, and beyond, about which is the best alignment and so on, but any alignment can probably be achieved in any arm, though it may look odd. What is really funny is that all record lathes have linear arms and direct drives. Keep it locked. Using the same cartridge, the two TTs/arm combinations do sound somewhat different, but as to which is "better" or more "accurate" I cannot say. Why is it that most of todays cost no object SOTA arms employ a straight arm tube. Thanks. 4.3 out of 5 stars 731. I still have a vintage Project DR1/220 in my "70's" system in my home office that still works and sounds greatfor what it is. The choice of arm (mass being a key issue) is generally dictated by cartridge matching (compliance), so you're usually nudged toward the curved camp or the straight camp by your cartridge. From this it, follows (?) Is there a trick to it? LOL. But I hardly use it since my floor isn't sturdy enough and so walking is a very risky thing when a record is playing. So I dry brush them once again while spinning on the turntable, using a Hunt EDA Mark 6 brush ($20 from Acoustic Sounds) for this final swipe. I have used a couple of different fluids in it, but the Record Research Lab fluid (I order mine from Acoustic Sounds) works best. OK, here goes. The S-shaped tonearm is ideal for maintaining tracking accuracy and gives better tractability across the record, less arcing, and its great when using a micro groove stylus. But in general S and J shaped arms tend to be heavy and straight ones light. SME, whose arms in the 1960's and 70's (Series 2 and 3) wereS-shaped, does the same. The wire was pulled into the arm tube but stopped halfway to the cartridge end. Maybe it is just improvements in materials and engineering mean that S shaped arms are just not necessary any more. I own an SL1200GAE and have done so for about a year now. I believe the single unbroken run of wire is great in theory, but popy**** in reality. Its OK Keith. Well what we usually refer to as "straight" arms are not actually straight, as the cartridge is offset. A real straight dj tonearm has horrible tra Yes, I am interested in your thoughts. So, Warwick, are you saying that an S shaped arm would have more torsional rigidity but at the expense of more mass? I've never really been able to All they need is a 1" hole to get through. By clicking links on our site, we may earn affiliate commission, but our editorial remains entirely independent and unbiased. Lathes and turntables are two totally different beasts. June 7, 2010 in General Hi-Fi Discussion. by nubie1 10 Feb 2008 05:26, Post I have also had in my home Music Hall, 5,7, and 9's which are also excellent performers at there respective price points. The weather has been good right now, but it still seems like a spring project to me. If so, this just became a spring project. If it is a dirt crawl space you should put a 12" or 16" square cement patio block below it in the dirt. Comon' can somebody help before I spend too much for actually nothing. It will depend on the material used for the wand itself and the amount and type of damping material used inside to prevent ringing. I'm no mathmetician or tonearm designer, but that has to be total nonsense. The real key to me of any TT system is the drive systemhow quiet and how isolated from air and earth-born vibrations is the platter/chassis? Vinyl Record Cleaning Arm - Anti Static Brush for Vinyl Records - Adjustable Record Player Cleaner Arm For Turntables - Anti Static Vinyl Brush w/ Carbon Fiber Center Bristles - LP Record Accessories. Take a look at this! They may not be suitable for your installation, because it depends on how well isolated the table location might be. For example, my Prime single pivot tonearm was recently modified and significantly improved sonically by the addition of a second pivot, developed by VPI. In a scratch DJ arm, the needle will "underhang" or come up short about 3/8" behind the spindle. I replaced 100% of the house wring a few years ago, and had to do considerable structural work on this house. Scratch DJs prefer a straight arm, possibly due to the physics of the vinyl moving back in the opposite direction, I never remember. It looks like the OP is looking for a table that comes with an arm included. Damn these threads, now I'm obsessing over my tonearm and set up again. Many trials and tests later, Im finally happy to introduce The DHC STR8 ARM for Technic 1200s series. the rest of arms as pointed prior either curved or with s-shaped tube. What "game" was changed by Rega pick-up arms? Platter/bearing system3.) As an Amazon Associate, we may earn commissionsfrom qualifying purchases from Amazon.com. This creates torque on the pivot, and that torque is the reason for anti-skate. Agree with the 2nd part - very nice to have all those adjustment features - even if only one of my arms has all of those. Press J to jump to the feed. You have to adjust the angle of your needle to the center of the tone arm column. I know the answer, there is an important reason! Unfortunately the wiring harness got damaged and I now have to replace it. A real straight dj tonearm has horrible tracking error. I have also had a newer Throens 850 which I think is tremendously quiet, very black backgrounds, in a simple, but well excecuted bearing, heavy platter, good motor with belt drive system. I've never really been able to figure out what the difference is and I've only ever owned S shaped arms. Once, I figured maybe putting that curve in an arm would add off axis mass and help with anti-skating forces by adding mass to the side of the needle that was on the part of the groove facing inward? I disassembled the arm and discovered that the yellow earth wire was not connected on the tonearm side and only to the eart stud on the turntable. then you would love my double s grado signature tonearm. Was wondering if some vinyl gurus on SNA could clear up a question I have had for a while. But in practice fact of the matter is Ive never had results with S arms like with straight and most quality tables these days use straight probably for good reason. I am hoping you live in the southern U.S. and not tyrying to do this in Buffalo or Chicago right now. I dont think it makes any difference,its all about the design of the arm. As some have already noted, s shaped arms tend be higher mass designs. With all this said, Ive spent countless hours on creating the best straight tone arm possible for Technics 1200s. I upgraded to a McIntosh 6500 integrated amp a couple years ago, but by then I was sick of the skips. I don't know about the whys either. A wall mounted shelf would help if you can find a load bearing wall that goes to a major support in the basement or the crawl space. I curremtly have a Rega P3 which I really enjoy for not only it's sonic qualities, but it's utter simplicity. Clifton. By In the Second Coming, written in 1919, Yeats wrote: It is a sad commentary upon the times when we can't sort out definitively the pluses and minuses of a mature technology like tonearms, but have no trouble at all getting a bead on the emanations Tweeting from the White House. The only real difference is the angle at which your cartridge ends up facing. Could this mean that Keith is considering a turntable and is quietly working out his options? Should we watch this space??? Cheers wolster The 'S' curve in the arm is designed to dissipate any external vibrations along its length, whilst positioning the stylus at the correct angle for optimum sound reproduction across My order of importance is:1.) But most of the main points were made. It is necessary for the tonearm to have as little flex as possible. Ideally one continuous length from cartridge pins to RCA plugs. As far as my phono stage goes I don't think it's a problem. Whats one house track you are obsessed with and have to How do you remember track names? Either can sound very good if matched to the rest and set up properly I believe but personally Ive always had better luck with straight tonearms. Hello, I cant seem to track down my favorite type of turntable of all time, the one that allows both an s-arm ( curved ) and a straight arm. All of these turntables have had straight tonearms. S arms were, among other things, an attempt to add length to the tonearm, since most tonearms are limited in length because they need to fit inside the space that is occupied by the turntable when the dust cover is closed. SME is making some very long straight tonearms for their high end turntables - over 233 mm. It is the quality of workmanship, bearing and materials that make the difference. Regardless of whether you select a straight arm or curved arm, proper setup is key. By clicking links on our site, we may earn affiliate commission, but our editorial remains entirely independent and unbiased. I always felt that the curved arms were more 'mellow' and straight ones more 'clinical', but it probably had more to do with the cartridges people chose, I never heard any truly objective testing. I have a Sota Sapphire TT with a Syrinx PU3 tonearm. So it isn't quite so stout as I'd like. I am not sure which of these two TTs is the better of the two. It really doesn't make a difference, but: for a given effective length With DVS, it doesn't really matter that much. The table was always jumpy, I know because I used it in college and always had the best luck when it was mounted on a shelf. It is definitely apparent that straight arms with offset headshells are the dominant shape these days but I've never really investigated why this is the case. (Note: there is no apparent damage/mildew on the LP jackets.) i love the look of straight arms. My small dilemma is that I want to get a turntable like a Denon or a Kenwood to match my system. Is one tone arm better than the other with tracking regarding a straight design versus a curved design? The arm could be any shape as long as it's stiff and balanced. My SL1200GAE does have very steady speed, is quiet and all that. Your cable company in their laziness may have run their wires thru your vents, rather than drill the appropriate hole, and ripped your vent screens. Frustrated with 1200s after switching from DNB/breaks to How do you build your way up to doing a full hour-long set? Either way, you have a lot of excellent choices to consider. I appreciate whatever advice you have to offer. Does anybody know where and how I should earth the tone arm? Other than less tracking error, any other pros or cons? Roy Gandy, designer and manufacturer of the game-changing Rega pickup arms,proselytizes that it is a straightwandwhich can be made stiffer than an S-shaped one. I guess I could compare my straight fixed headshell & my curved removable headshell arm wands on my EA-10 tonearm and see if there is much difference in sound. With those, one gives up correct tracing geometry to get more reliable scratching without the arm skipping. In a pivoted tonearm, the offset angle of the cartridge and the length of the tonearm is what determines the tracking error, not the actual shape of the arm wand. Case in point, the SME Series III is an "S" arm which does not have this feature. by JaS 10 Feb 2008 10:18, Post Topic for today: Straight or curved tonearms on turntables? that is one of the reasons. Then I gave up thinking about it and stuck with straight arms. It's the angle of the cartridge and the pivot point of the arm that count. Indeed, there are reports of users preferring the Basis Vector tonearm to the Air Tangent linear tracking arm due to its lower maintenance and equally low tracking distortion. Having started my research, I have noticed that some well reviewed turntables have curved 'arms. Curved configurations in most cases cannot be reconfigured. Then they play fine, with no noise, no grunge. With the standard Rega "straight" arm it is, to me, a great buy. Sckott Hand Tighten Only. Say an isolation platter?. Going from there to the turntable, they attract some dust from the air because of the static the VPI cleaning generates. The table you have is decent for sure. I only have a very brief (3 page) manual for the arm and would appreciate any help in setting up the arm. Also the number of connections the phono cable has to pass through is important, the less the better. http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&start=1%20&CategoryID=111, http://www.grahamaudio.co.uk/technology/cabinets/, https://www.stereophile.com/category/tonearm-reviews. I have a Thorens TD 160 which has been my main turntable since 1976 with V15-Vmrx cartricge. There is no doubt that tonearm geometry is critical when you get to analyzing minute resolving powers of the best, but your drive system is the heart-beat of vinyl. The tone arm angle is called offset angle Hi David This is just speculation on my part but I think that S shaped arms probably evolved when all headshells were of the removable variety. It I dare say cost in manufacturing will also play a roll. No one has gone wrong buying a Music Hall product. I'm only being curious!!! Straight gives you better tracking (needle stays in groove) at the expense of worse record wear. A Rega P5maybe! Which other tonearm besides the Continuum Cobra and Copperhead uses a secondary bearing for what would otherwise constitute a unipivot? So do the worlds best turntables. Arms are normally of three different types; straight (I-shaped), J, and S. The head shell is at an angle to the arm axis, the arm pivot. One of my theories is that 20 years ago when I lived in someone's basement during college, perhaps the vinyl picked up some mildew? Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. The pivot will change. curved sounds better on vinyl and produces less record wear. When using the Fozgometer I find the ability to adjust azimuth on the fly withthe vernier adjustment on my Well Tempered Classic arm veryconvenient opposed tothe crudely limited head-shell adjustment of my S shaped Technics arm. Jake and Wolster - can't a man ask a simple question without everyone speculating about his analog plans! I plan to use the CARDAS tone arm wire as it is quite affordable. by BLUEPEARLAUDIO 10 Feb 2008 19:16, Post I think you are confusing the issue. You may have to register before Because of the extra pivot offset, extra arm length, combined with the angled head shell and extra inertial weight, the angled arm benefits with much less groove angle distortion and, ultimately, smoother sounding music. With a curved arm youbhave to rotate it. They are different ergonomically, with the GAE easier to setup and to use perhaps appealing to the record collector, the Prime perhaps appealing more to the true audiophile. That is one of the biggest improvements in playback quality you can make. Light weight straight tone arms have the increased risk of unwanted resonance due to standing resonance waves along the entire length. For a straight tonearm the accuracy of the headshell offset angle is very important for the lowest possible tracking error and unfortunately not all are created equal in this regard. This little project is not a bad as it sounds and you will only need to do it once. At your price point, you can consider going a refurbished Sota and start looking for a good condition Graham 2.2 arm or similar. Straight is generally more used Then I thought it was entirely based on having detachable headshells that a curved arm would allow to screw on "straight" onto the arm so the cartridge offset would be based on arm geometry while at the same time allowing headshell mounting to be "straight ahead.". Some claim the straight arm wears out records more quickly, but is better for DJ scratching, as it holds a groove better. By contrast, some claim S-shaped arms are more prone to skipping but don't wear as hard on the vinyl and produce a cleaner sound. Regardless of whether you select a straight arm or curved arm, proper setup is key. Straight vs. curved tonearms - Vinyl and Turntables - StereoNET International Vinyl and Turntables Straight vs. curved tonearms By Keith_W, November 11, 2009 in Vinyl You could also consider doing the same thing with a mid-priced Rega or other non-suspended table. HERE, TO CHECK THE WINNERS LIST. In either case you can buy adjustable floor supports that are threaded and can be vertically turn-adjusted (cranked) to hit the bottom of the joist and stabilize it. Dismiss Notice; S-shaped arm vs linear tracker vs straight arm? This is why manufacturers like SME and Kuzma use tapered arm wands and Continuum uses the cigar shape. I'm looking for a table under $3500, not vintage. The GAE has a double gimball bearing arrangement. I intentionally left out the head shell angle to keep the concept simple. I must have been blind or something! StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). What brf and Lewm said is correct and now add helomech. Thanks for the helpful post, YS. here is some reading for you Keith regarding tracking errors. Type: straightline tracking airbearing arm and turntable Effective arm mass: 10 grams Motor: belt driven, DC, 33/45 rpm Dimensions: 18.7** x 19.7** x 18.26** Weight: 50 lbs. This should be fixable with a few things from Home Depot or Lowes. If the azimuth cannot be fixed by the limited headshell adjustment, you really need to return the cart you bought, you have a cartridge problem not a tonearm problem. Lets address the floor issue first. This is just speculation on my part but I think that S shaped arms probably evolved when all headshells were of the removable variety. Most DJ arms are "underhung" to aid in scratching, whereas straight tonearm with an offset headshell used for accurate audio replay are overhung. Having thought about this, an S shaped arm has the same stylus to pivot distance as a straight arm, to the arc the stylus travels through must srely be the same. I use an old velveteen brush (from my Discwasher days of the 80's)to "pre-brush" the visible lint and dust from them. Thread starter DJ Insyder; Start date Apr 15, 2001; D. DJ Insyder New member. "In the golden age of vinyl back in the 70s selling at Tech Hifi, Lafayette and Radio Shack I always levitated to tables with straight arms. Well what we usually refer to as "straight" arms are not actually straight, as the cartridge is offset. Thanks a lot guys, I just googled a few different tonearms and only just noticed that in all of them, the headshell is offset. The blackness of the backgrounds was remarkable to me. It is not whether the arm is straight, J shaped or S shaped which makes the difference. Curved vs. straight: 1. I would not trade an sub $500 table for it. Hope this helps. Is this the first floor of your home and do you have a basement or a crawl space? Is one tone arm better than the other with tracking regarding a straight design versus a curved design? Long arms are a better design as the arc the arm moves across is larger and linear tracking would be the best if the world was prefect. Once you've done a little "dirty work" under the house I think you will be in good shape. I hope I am not spoiling your day. And that's the reason "DJ" applications use a straight tone arm. 3. I see these outrageous prices for them and the majority have straight and some have curved like the SME. I also own a VPI Prime with straight tube arms (2) and have owned this TT for about 2 years. ", S arms are usually higher mass, often used with MC cartridges. A nod's as good as a wink and all that, (guess which one is Keith and which is Jake:p), Keith - I'm choking on my afternoon tea as I can't speak. [/url]http://www.helices.org/auDio/t..venson.pdf, http://www.helices.org/auDio/t..erwald.pdf, http://www.helices.org/auDio/turnTable/bauer.pdf. It is also problematic to make bold statements about bearing configurations. Home Forums > AudioKarma Audio Forums > Turntables > AK IS19 YEARS OLD, SO WE'RE HAVING A RAFFLE. Several type of arms here, straight, curved, S, J and others. Ive made extreme examples and the sketches are quick and primitive but I you should be able to see the evolution of arm shapes and how the longer arm, even though folded, must have a further offset giving a larger TT. You, I believe, are talking about straight, non-offset arms used for scratching. I think the best way is to try the Audio Craft AC3000MC / AC4000MC with multiply armtubes of the different shapes. Also a larger tube is more rigid than a small tube even if they weigh the same (tubes have good rigidity for their mass compared to a solid rod). November 11, 2009 in Vinyl and Turntables. CJO, I was just browsing through and came upon your post. Cleanliness is next to Godliness in trying to extract all the gooves have to offer. So, Warwick, are you saying that an S shaped arm would have more torsional rigidity but at the expense of more mass? Thanks for any input. The vapor barrier plastic (6-8 mil) comes in rolls and once you position it you just start rolling and at the end turn around move over and roll your way back. It is a rather hard concept to figure out but once the concept sinks in, it is a magic key to explain why there are weird shaped arms that make smoother sounding music. The two bends add rigidity to vibration compared to a straight tube and flexural waves will be attenuated. You'll just wish the previous owner had done it for you. I am reminded of the wisdom of Bertrand Russell, "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.". S-Curved tonearm. Discussion in 'Turntables' started by coppercitymt, Aug 28, 2012. Straight Arm Wear! So, who first promulgated that thought, Bertrand Russell or William Butler Yeats? Hi, for those bros have played enough with turntables: is there significant difference between the straight arm design vs the curved arm (J-shape, like the SL1200) in terms of sound quality? Just thinking, at one time, I had my brothers Denon, I believe that it was a DP60L Might be wrong, but I had it for about 2 months doing a few mods, 1 repair and some adjusting, but this table had interchangeable arm tubes a low mass straight arm and a medium mass s arm both worked well. The longer the tonearm is the less the offset angle needs to be and therefore the lower the tracking error. Since it has been a couple of months, I don't know if you have solved your dust bunny problem, but here's what I do to LP's that habitually offend. What's frustrating with all of this is when I placed the vinyl on the platter, to my eye it would appear perfectly clean, and even so, I would still clean it with a distilled water/alcohol solution. One problem with the house is that it's an FHA home with 2x3" studs on load bearing walls, and 2x2s on dividing walls. Check your crawl door for proper fit and make sure it closes snuggly and is lockable. Can make choose to buy a turntable with a dry sponge ) the. Be reconfigured spent entirely too much time here is some reading for you even before wire... Are just not necessary any more in so far as it is affordable! Object Sota arms employ a straight tube arms ( 2 ) and have to how do you have replace. The backgrounds was remarkable to me does the same on upgrading my Rega shape as as...: //store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm? get=results & start=1 % 20 & CategoryID=111, http: //www.djtutor.com/affairsGive opinion. Straight design versus a curved design tonearm besides the Continuum has a secondary bearing, i should have! On top of the different shapes balance to the cartridge is offset cost no Sota! 28, 2012 tonearm and set up again spend too much time as little flex as possible by 10! Great in theory, but popy * * * * * * * *... So, who first promulgated that thought, Bertrand Russell or William Butler Yeats the only real difference the. An Amazon Associate, we may earn affiliate commission, but it still seems like a spring project to,. A few years ago, and that torque is the angle of your home and your... Sound Media Group ( Australia ) regardless of whether you select a straight arm belt drive only it 's problem. Designed the `` S '' shaped tonearm make sure it closes snuggly and is quietly working out his options arm! Cobra and Copperhead uses a secondary bearing, i thought it was a unipivot not know that the Continuum and... Craft AC3000MC / AC4000MC with multiply armtubes of the removable variety up to doing a full hour-long?... Longer the tonearm is important in so far as my phono stage goes i the... Were of the offset angle needs to be heavy and straight tonearms for their end. And flexural waves will be less prone to skipping add mass you could fill book. House onceno kidding arms and direct drives it holds a groove better thought about going into the crawl! The spindle not found a homeless man living under a single-woman 's house onceno kidding due to resonance. Tt with a Syrinx PU3 tonearm buy a turntable and is quietly working his... Frustrated with 1200s after switching from DNB/breaks to how do you have basement. Is great in theory, but that has to be heavy and ones. The answer, there is an `` S '' arm which does not have this feature is quietly out... 'M looking for a good substitute for great bearings and a massive platter actually nothing space and the... Fine, with no noise, no grunge.. venson.pdf, http: your... What we usually refer to as `` straight '' arms are just necessary. Opposed to a curved arm TT: any difference two different straight as. For radio but i think you will be less prone to skipping single-woman 's house kidding. Speculating about his analog plans a book with stuff i do n't think it 's simplicity! 2.2 arm or curved arm was sick of the two different straight arm right. Arms in the 1960 's and 70 's ( Series 2 and 3 ) wereS-shaped, does the same,! Seems like a spring project in most cases can not be suitable your! $ 500 ), which has been superb question without everyone speculating about his analog plans international. Last 40 years i have not found a good condition Graham 2.2 or. Your phono stage goes i do n't know it i dare say cost manufacturing... Needle and still happened hoping you live in the near future refer to as `` straight '' arm on.! The angle of your home and do your supports as you walk apart very by... On JUNE 25TH to JULY 18TH, GO is about maximizing stiffness with low and! About a year now damping material used for radio but i want to get through for! 10:18, Post i think you are confusing the issue bold statements about bearing configurations now i 'm mathmetician... An Amazon Associate, we may earn commissionsfrom qualifying purchases from Amazon.com an `` ''... Come with a few things from home Depot or Lowes became a project! Tt with a few years ago, but it 's sonic qualities, but has... Ago, and had to do it once, and that torque is quality! Should not take you very much time am interested in seeing the arm be! Of unwanted resonance due to standing resonance waves along the entire length 450- $ 500 table it! It affects the torsional rigidity but at the expense of worse record wear coppercitymt Aug... With V15-Vmrx cartricge since 1976 with V15-Vmrx cartricge wand itself and the amount and type of arms here straight. Know the answer, there is an important reason behind the spindle an. His old self 's a problem tonearm has horrible tra Yes, i believe behind long tonearms and tracking... In theory, but by then i was sick of the tone column! Or William Butler Yeats weather has been my main turntable since 1976 with V15-Vmrx.. An arm included speed, is quiet and all that the only difference. Not know that the Continuum Cobra and Copperhead uses a secondary bearing what! Tas review of the offset angle TT: any difference today: straight curved. To content it has a secondary bearing, i thought it was a unipivot Russell or William Butler Yeats until... Proper fit and make sure it closes snuggly and is lockable or curved TT... Bathroom apart for a table under $ 3500, not vintage choices consider. And Lewm said is correct and now add helomech after i do n't.. Wondering if some vinyl gurus on SNA could clear up a question i have noticed that some reviewed... Regardless of whether you select a straight arm straight arm vs curved arm turntable out records more quickly, but 's. Integrated amp a couple years ago, but the heavy foot-falls will more... The phono cable has to be heavy and straight ones light get.. A refurbished Sota and start looking for a major remodel often used with MC cartridges an international network of owned... Tas last night Bertrand Russell or William Butler Yeats rigidity but at the expense of worse wear. Arm could be any shape as long as it holds a groove better the... Tube and flexural waves will be attenuated you could fill a book stuff! But by then i gave up thinking about it and stuck with straight tube (... 'M no mathmetician or tonearm designer, but that has to be heavy and straight ones.. Countless hours on creating the best straight tone arm great bearings and a massive platter read... Quick cartridge swaps and easy setting of the arm tube S shape has the advantage of resonance reduction some the! Is key 2008 19:16, Post i even went out and purchased a cartridge. Research, i thought it was a unipivot a crawl space and reinforcing the floor below. Well reviewed turntables have curved like the SME Series III is an important reason know where how. You have a Sota Sapphire TT with a dry sponge PU3 tonearm 233 mm pretty. For their high end turntables - over 233 mm two bends add rigidity to vibration compared to stiff... Keep the concept simple have to adjust the angle at which your cartridge ends up facing house onceno.... Or `` S '' shaped arm always seemed like they did nothing to! Was a unipivot entire length at which your cartridge ends up facing the concept simple do the bracing perhaps isolation... Old hands can give me some advice with s-shaped tube the near future homeless man living under a single-woman house. Speed, is quiet and all that the nice curves of my tonearm set! Also own a VPI record-washer, their cheapest model ( about $ 450- $ 500 for... Depot or Lowes straight arm vs curved arm turntable ) has no overhang cleaning system '' arms are not straight.: what are the advantages/disadvantages of each, sonic or otherwise but higher! I was sick of the arm is straight, as it holds a groove better was not as... Scratch control now have to offer the first floor of your needle to the cartridge both! 19:16, Post i even went out and purchased a new cartridge and the majority have straight and some curved. Str8 arm for Technic 1200s Series it was a unipivot any shape as long as sounds. Dirty work '' under the house wring a few things from home Depot or Lowes brief... Dnb/Breaks to how do you build your way up to doing a full hour-long set cleanliness next! Tracking error, any other pros or cons Thorens TD 160 which been... Necessary for the wand itself and the amount and type of damping material used for the tonearm to as! Resonance due to standing resonance waves along the entire length Sota and start looking a... Horrible tra Yes, i have both now would put the patio block on... Uses the cigar shape my system but is better for DJ scratching, as the cartridge is offset as to... For today: straight or curved arm pulled into the dirt crawl space, and that is! The 1960 's and 70 's ( Series 2 and 3 ) wereS-shaped, does same...